Below is a transcript of my debate with a friend of mine, named Efrain, a while back. He believed that Cain was not Satan's literal son. I know the truth is otherwise. You can read below or you can go to Facebook (at the link below) and read it there. (All the paragraphs that are Efrain's part of the dialogue will be preceded by his name.)
Or if you prefer, you can read it at my Facebook page by clicking on the link below.
https://www.facebook.com/tom.vutayan
Efrain: I dont see the sex part in any of that. The knowledge the frut is refering to is a specific knowledge and it referes to the ability of decleare between good and evil. This only can be done by God The idea that sex is what happen there is an example of of the efects of that. We say that there is evil pleasure and because or we have already decleare sex as evil we push the idea into a text that in no way gives you the tools to come up with that.
Tom: I used to believe that the tree of knowledge was an actual tree & that Adam & Eve ate actual fruit from said tree. Both the Tree of Life & the Tree of Knowledge are symbolic of Jesus & Satan, respectively. (The other trees in the garden were literal trees.) The serpent deceived the couple into receiving Luciferian enlightenment (Kundalini awakening). I guess you could also call it gnosis. One way to achieve awakening (opening the 3rd eye) is through anal sex--which the Illuminati/Satanists love to practice--the Kenites being the children of Satan. Again, that's how Cain came about: he was the offspring of the sexual union between Satan & Eve. Partaking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge means that 1st Eve had sex with Satan & then Adam engaged in same (with the serpent). Thus God would not place a tree in the garden in order to tempt the couple (with its fruit). "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." (James 1:13-14) That is God would not create a situation in which man can be tempted. He was warning Adam & Eve to stay away from Satan.
Efrain: Tom all that is a good argument in it self but lacks one very important ingredient which brings the complete srgument to the ground. Freedome. Eve has nothi.g to do with our condition exept, she was used by Satan to tempt adam. When she ste the fruit nothing happened. This is not a third eye thing. For crying out loud Tom, I was a satanist. You dont think I would have knowned. That is not what it is. Satan ofered them to be like God, who determines what is good or evil. That kind of knoledge belongs only to God, who knows all things and is acompanied with power. This is not my opinion. What Im telling you is the result of studies and research. You have to examine the account as a whole and then throught the whole general biblical message.
Adam & Eve had free choice in the garden. As I said, God warned them to stay away from Satan. Thus they had the choice to obey God or turn to Satan. Eve's sin has no bearing on my sin or your sin, of course. Everybody's responsible for their own sin. (Jesus being the ransom for all of us sinners.) However, there's 1 way in which Eve's sin affects us. From her sexual union with Satan came Cain. The Synagogue of Satan--who rule this world system--know that Cain is their father. From the beginning--in the garden--this has been a war (a struggle) between 2 seedlines: the woman's (being Jesus) & the serpent's (Cain & his posterity). Opening the 3rd eye is not of God. Thus it is of Satan. There is no middle ground. Jesus said it himself: you are either for him or against him. The practice of Yoga, Kundalini (serpentine energy moving up the spine), & opening the 3rd eye--all these are of Lucifer. Again, saying that God put the tree of knowledge in the garden to trip up Adam & Eve is not biblical. God is not a man that he should tempt people.
Efrain: They lie and they are lied to. You cant trust their info.
Who do you mean by they? My standard for truth is the word of God. I have backed up my argument by appealing to the Bible. Everything I read--everything I come across--I look at in the light of the scriptures.
Efrain: Look Tom the story is symbolic but you have to study it in parameter that are resposible. You have to see that there is no sexual analogy in the story. That the tree's fruit claims a specific knowledge which at that point is not for man and is described as the knowledge or science of good and evil. Only someone who can judge then could use that knowledge. Look what happens after. The first human judgement: they judge nakedness evil. God then asked who told you that. He is asking like he was asuming they didnt have that knowledge. This overthinking of the seeds is part of the puritan mentality that ruin the church. In Jesus leneage there was a prostitute who lied in order to save herself from been a casualty of an invation. You are reading into the text things that are not there. Trying to explain satans intro to the world as the father of cain dammages the theology that you are trying to defend.
Ah, the garden story is a mixture of the symbolic with the literal. The way the Kenites/Synagogue of Satan/Sons of Cain/Zionists operate today can be traced back to what happened in the Garden in Eden.
You do realize that the Synagogue of Satan--those who say they are Jews & are not but do lie--they are the rulers of this world (Babylon) system? The Bankers control the world & their father is Satan. These Kenites are the sons of Cain, whose father was Satan.
Efrain: Dude you use one portion of the scripture an separate that from the rest of the story.
What I'm doing is I'm reading every verse--every passage--in light of the whole of the scriptures. From Genesis to Revelation it all matches up. Jesus mentioned the Synagogue of Satan twice in Revelation 2:9 & 3:9. They go back to Genesis. Again, the war between the 2 seedlines over the millennia.
Efrain: Tom, Cain does not have to be literaly the son of Satan for that. Jesus said to the Sanhidrim who was obsesed with leanage that God could create sons of Abraham from the rocks. Hes argument was that lenage didnt have the importance that they gave to it. Now im giving you two biblical acounts from the old and new testament that tells you the same thing.
Efrain: I can keep going. Studing the bible is kind of like drawing. You have to look the general outlook before geting in the details. Also you have to study the figurative language of the bible. Synagoge of satan was a description commonly used for false doctrines by the other jewish denomination and is used in that context in the bible.
Of course God can do the impossible. Cain is the son of Satan. The Pharisees of Jesus' day were--most of them--Kenites. These were Edomites/Kenites who had slyly moved themselves into the position of leadership within the REMNANT of Judah that was left (after both the Assyrian & the Babylonian deportations). These Pharisees were working hand in hand with the moneychangers in the temple. And so their descendants are the Edomite Jewish Banking Families of today: those who say they are Jews & are not but do lie. (Of course a minority of the Pharisees were not Kenites, such as Joseph of Arimathea.)
Efrain: There is no way that christian anthropologist missed that but you somehow got everyones genealogy so specificly right.
Jesus was talking about a certain group of people when he spoke of the Synagogue of Satan. There are Bible teachers who say that the apostate pastors today are the SOS, but they're wrong. Again Genesis 3:15 speaks of the war between the 2 seedlines. Yes many false teachers--wolves in sheep's clothing--who've infiltrated the church work for the SOS/Kenites/Bankers.
I don't put any stock in what any anthropologists--Christian or otherwise--have to say. I don't put any stock in what science has to say. Science is greatly compromised. Science is a religion--with its devotees. The Illuminati/Kenites have thoroughly taken over & corrupted science--just like they have done to the church. Most people who call themselves Christians are deceived--as Paul said whould happen: 2 Thessalonians 2.
Well all those who are false teachers work for the Synagogue of Satan. That is they work for Satan.
Efrain: That comment is an example of you comiting the sin of judging people you dont even know including dear friends of mine that had done nothing but serving God, people, and help people in need. I am not defending bankers because i dont have to take that rute to see their evil, but you are making judgement calls using the bible out of context. Some of the people you just insulted are friends of mine. So i'll stop arguing about this. Good night.
It is clear that the Banking families--such as the Rothschilds & the Rockefellers--run the world (Babylon system). They are the Synagogue of Satan. That's who I'm speaking of--& all who serve them. When we come across somebody who claims to be a Christian, we can determine if they are speaking the truth by examining their fruit--as the Bible tells us to do. I'm not saying every scientist is Satanic. Most of them are deceived. There are levels of deception. Some are more deceived than others. I'm sure some of them know they serve Satan. My standard for truth is the word of God. Anything the sciences have to say--archaeology, anthropology, physics, history--I look at in the light of the Bible. Rightly dividing the word of truth.
Efrain: Lets see the fruit of this conversation. By coming up with your vertion of the Genesis acount you implied that your research is the true interpretation of the text. So my bible teachers are wrong, I am wrong we may serve satan, because if your interpretation of the text is truth all who opose that interpretation is of satan. Im saying that the text implies that the knowledge of good and evil comes only from God and anyone who exercise judgement is going to do it from his own point of view and comite idolatry making themselves as if they were gods. Think about that for a second and tellme wich message goes more witb Jesus teachings. Remember what He said about the mentality we needed to have when he said you study the scriptures to gain eternal life, but what they do is tall about me.
Efrain: Talk, not tall. Sorry for the grammar.
I am going by what scripture says. You must interpret scripture by using scripture. It's prettty clear who the Synagogue of Satan is. It is not the apostate church. They serve the SOS, who are Edomite Jews. These Jews who are not truly the descendants of Judah are of Edomite lineage & Kenite lineage. The whole of the scirptures points this out. From Genesis to Revelation--the scriptures are not broken.
The knowledge of good & evil does not come from God. The tree of knowledge is SYMBOLIC of Satan. Adam & Eve eating from that tree is a METAPHOR for them having been enticed by Satan (sexually). By doing that the couple brought death upon themselves, as God had warned them. Adam & Eve were/are real people. The 2 trees--the tree of life & the tree of knowledge--are figurative. Cain resulted from Eve's union with Satan. And you can trace his progeny all the way through history. The REAL history. Do you ever wonder why God put a mark on Cain? So that others would be warned about killing him? God was going to use him & his progeny (Kenites/SOS) to work something out-through time. Something grand that would bring glory to him (the God).
Who did Jesus speak out against with vigor? Who did he call call a brood of vipers? These Jews who were Edomites/Kenites. Judahite leader John Hyrcanus forced the Edomites whom he had conquered to convert to Judaism. These Edomites became Jews, meaning they became followers (practitioners) of Judaism. It is these Jews who insinuated themselves into the leadership (Sanhedrin) over time--so that in Jesus' day they had gained control of Judean (Judahite) society--which was under Roman domination of course. And then you have the Kenites (sons of Cain). These can be traced back to Genesis. They are already in Canaan when Abraham & Sarah arrive in that land. And they became the servants of Israel--& served in the 1st Temple. If memory serves, Saul (before he became Paul) participated in putting to death those who had turned from the Jew's religion to the Way.
Saul (who became Paul) was a Judahite of the tribe of Benjamin. He was operating in deception & serving these Kenites/Edomite Jews who dominated the Sanhedrin. It is these Jews who came up with the Talmud: the vilest piece of writing to exist, from what I can tell.
Efrain: Non of that proves your sexual theory of genesis. In the flod God erased the nefilin. Is the only story about angels having sex with humans. You dont need that to prove the other stuff. Thats my point. You are gooing beyond the passsge. You cant do that because thats how false doctrines start.
Efrain, you have to know how to piece the evidence together. You must interpret scripture with scripture. Question all your Bible teachers. Do not go by the interpretations of men. And just because they went to seminary does not mean they'e any more qualified to teach the Bible; in fact just the opposite. Seminaries are brainwashing/indoctrination centers. Question everything you've been taught about the Bible. Did not Paul say to question everything? Even to question him? The Bereans searched the scriptures (daily) for themselves to see if what Paul & the other teachers were saying was backed up by scripture. Also, we do not read the Bible in a vacuum. We come across other books, other writings, other websites. And like detectives we piece together the evidence--always with the word of God as our standard--the final arbiter of what is true and what is not. The universities (all academia) have been severely corrupted.
False doctrine? You haven't refuted anything I've said. And you haven't addressed what I said about God not tempting people: it's not in him to do that. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the garden story is entirely allegorical--even seeing it that way you still are saying that God was tempting Adam & Eve (setting them up for a fall) when you say that God placed the tree of knowledge in the garden & then warned Adam not to eat from it. Why would God place a forbidden tree in the garden? If that interpretation is true then it contradicts the rest of scripture--concerning God's nature. As for the eyes of Adam & Eve being opened & them knowing that they were naked: that is speaking of how they lost their innocence, once they received enlightenment from Satan. We all have a choice. Jesus of Nazareth or Satan. Life or death.
As Moses said (Deuteronomy 30:19): "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live..."
Seminaries are actually SEMEN-aries. You need to realize how the sons of Cain/Illuminati operate. Sodomy is a major part of their rituals.
God cannot do evil. Satan knows how to do both good and evil. He was once the covering cherub for the Holy One. Satan led Adam & Eve into experiencing evil.
Efrain: Tom, what is your intention here. You can prove anything missusing the scriptures. Im not arguing that the bankers are part of a conspiracy group. My srgument is that non of what you said proves your sodomy theory. Because your evidence needs to be in the text at hand. I dont need to prove you wrong, because your only link is that you see the seduction by the serpent about sex when the text clearly implies a specific kind of knowledge. Because this does not conect with a theory that you are working for some time, you have two options. Push it in or not. Why you are doing this? You tend to go for hidden meanings. Not a bad thing as an investigative tool. But not good for conclusions. Im not trying to desmember your findings is just that it worries me that you are atrivuting evil and goodness to blood lines. That invalid salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. Im not arguing mad but concerned. You are a great researsher and I love your work and concern for things and details. I studied Genesis and descovered that this tree was really representation of Gods knowledge of good and evil. This account is not an account made to be historical. Its intention is to give a general perseption of how humanity became independent of God and guilty of separation. I care about you. I truly hope you see what my intention is.
It's not my theory. Your interpretation of the garden story is a theory. The question is: which interpretation is true? Again, you have not addressed what I brought up about God not tempting people. Why don't you address it? I'm waiting. As for my agenda, it is this: to get to the truth. We have been lied to in the churches. The vast majority of churches--including so-called Christian schools & Christian universities (in fact all of them)--are in apostasy, if you haven't realized. They all teach heresies. Again Adam & Eve having sex with Satan is not my theory. It has been taught throughout the centuries, but it has been suppressed--because the Kenites don't want the truth to get out. That's why you have false teachings like the rapture, eternal security, eternal hellfire (& some ogthers) that are popular. The tares have come in and are indistinguishable from the wheat. Which is why both Jesus & Paul emphasized to not let ourselves be deceived.
I know you mean well, but you do not have knowledge. Paul said that his fellow Judahites had a zeal for God but without knowledge.
Humanity is in a fallen state. The garden account is about how Jesus would come through the Adamic line. The Gospel of Luke traces Jesus' lineage all the way back to Adam. You keep saying that I hold up my research as being the truth. Everything I come across I hold up to the light of the word of God. The scriptures are the standard for truth. Whereas you have appealed to anthropology (your scientist friends) & your Bible teachers. You have appealed to the traditions of men--the interpretations of men. If you're going to refute me, then do so from the Bible.
Yes, those who have taught you the Bible are working for Satan. I do not condemn them when I say that. We are called to judge the fruit of others. With the same Judgment I use on others, the same will be used to judge me. So I judge the fruit of others according to the word of God. Therefore I expect others (who have a beef with me) to use the word of God to judge the fruit that I've produced--whether my own fruit is good or evil.
Those who turn away from the truth condemn themselves.
I have not invalidated salvation coming by faith in Jesus Christ. There are certain people who--like many of the Pharisees in Jesus' day--will not turn to God.
Efrain, you bringing up Jesus saying that God could raise up sons of Abraham from the rocks is actually Jesus saying that the stones would cry out--if the multitude were to hold their peace. You need to accept that the matter of bloodlines is crucial. Jesus came through Adam's bloodline. The Kenites came through Cain's bloodline--thus they came from Satan. Jesus came for his own--Israel--he said that he was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
The Christian/European/Germanic/Celtic/Anglo-Saxon nations are the Christian nations. Paul was called to carry the Gospel to Scattered Israel (the "Gentiles" in the Book of Romans) in Europe. That is not to say that today there aren't Christians who are not Israelites--there are. But the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians (anyway) are of European/Caucasian heritage. They are the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Efrain: The teachers I had are kind, mercyfull, loving and people of great record of service to the Lord. That is what this is all about been Christlike. Im really sory for bodering you. It wont happen again.
We are told in Genesis that 2 tribes of the Whole House of Israel would become preeminent in all the world. Those 2 tribes were Eprhaim & Manasseh. That's why Jacob adopted them directly. Those 2 tribes have become the greatest of all Israel. Ephraim is England today & the USA is Manasseh today. Both are in rapid decline now. This is what Paul meant when he spoke of the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. We are the generation that is going to see all things fulfilled.
Your teachers may be kind, but they're deceived. Paul said that there would be a falling away from the truth in the last days. Do you not think that he was speaking of our day? I see apostasy everywhere. Again, question every teacher. Question every pastor. Question every prophet. Of course question what I say. Do not accept right away what I have said about Genesis. But on the other hand do neither dismiss it right away (what I've said). Search the scriptures for yourself. Question all that you've been taught about the Bible. You said it yourself: you have to be able to see the broad picture being painted before you can go in & study the details. The grand picture is of the enmity between the seed of the woman (Jesus) and the seed of the serpent (Kenites/Synagogue of Satan).
Don't be sorry, Efrain. You haven't bothered me. The only way we can get to the truth is by reasoning with each other about the word of God.
Efrain, you brought up the Puritans. The Puritans were Calvinists. Calvinists are Satanists, whether they realize it or not. You saying that the knowledge of good and evil comes from God--this is a Calvinist position. Verily you are standing for Calvinism. Do not the Calvinists believe that God is responsible for every action of every man/woman? The millions of Russians who died at the hands of the (Jewish) Bolsheviks was caused by God? Lenin was funded by the Bankers (Synagogue of Satan/Kenites/Edomites) by the way. Another thing: how many pastors do you know of speak out against usury? Usury is against God's law. You see how far gone the church is today.
The Turks perpetrated a holocaust against the Armenians in the early 20th century. About 1.5 million Armenians were tortured and murdered. This horrendous campaign was engineered by the Bankers (House of Rothschild).
