Friday, May 13, 2016

Pergamum/Bergama: Site of Ancient Troy?

The following is from Facebook.

Malakh HaTzadik To say that the consensus is wrong is a massive understatement. They don't even have the right location. What they call Troy is Dardania of the Iliad. What the Iliad calls Troy, we call Pergamon.
UnlikeReply117 hrs
Tom Vutayan Yes, I can see why you would say this, Malakh. Dardanus was the founder of Homeric Ilios. If one wants to get technical, one would differentiate between Dardania and Troy. I get the impression that that whole area was known as the "Troad" (being derived from the Hittite name for it). Thus Troy (Pergamon) and Dardania (which includes Wilusa or Ilios) became interchangeable. Ilios was an empire, i.e., it had vassals and/or allies from that region of Western Anatolia. (I'm slowly going through the Iliad for the 2nd time.)
LikeReply12 hrs
Malakh HaTzadik I don't believe they became interchangeable, just that there is a lot of confusion, but I do believe they were part of the same empire. As you obviously know well, Dardania is listed among the vassals of Troy. And I agree with your Troad comment. The term ilios is generic and refers in the Iliad specifically to the citadel of Pergamon, which was otherwise called Troas. The Iliad was my favorite story growing up, and archaeology was my favorite thing to study. I learned all about the Schliemann digs early on. As I got older, I couldn't fathom how anyone in the present era was still convinced he was right in his location, but wrong about his findings. The Romans claimed Aeneas as their founder, and Aeneas was from Dardania according to Homer, but when they sent emissaries to their purported homeland in order to consult the "Magna Mater" at Mount Ida during the Punic Wars, they went straight to Pergamum. The Romans always knew that Troy = Pergamon, and that's why they were so keen on having their two nations merge. I did a lot of research to follow their lead and corroborated it, thinking I was the first, but another guy beat me to it.
Author John Crowe uses Homer’s epics about the Trojan War, the Iliad and Odyssey, as the…
UnlikeReplyRemove Preview111 hrs
Tom Vutayan Now this is a theory that I've never heard of. I think, just from what I've seen so far, that this is the best theory yet for Troy's true location. Thanks for that.
LikeReply4 hrs
Tom Vutayan Here's a quote from John Lascelles' book: "Philon of Byblos (Herrenius Philo, AD 64-161) who flourished around AD 100, translated a mysterious Phoenician history called Sanchuniathon. Was it 'lost" because it was written so embarrasingly close to a circa 800 BC Trojan War? Nevertheless, lonely cries of dissent came out of the dark from time to time. This study hopes to join them. Strabo has already drawn our attention to the famous dissenter, Demetrius of Scepsis (born c.14 BC) who was an archaeologist, grammarian, and a man of varied learning. He was hostile to the claim of Ilium (at present Hisarlik) to be Troy. His work of a lifetime was to write 30 books on the 62 line catalog of Trojan forces in the Iliad Book 2. We only know of him because he was quoted by Strabo, Diogenes Laertes (first half 3rd century AD), and Stephanus Byzantium (early 6th century AD). Other writers vilified him as a 'jealous pedant.' When we realise how much was at stake, we can understand the fury of condemnation against him. Demetrius desired to tell the truth and never mind the consequences. His critics saw him as a threat to the survival of the Greek people. In this new light, is it any wonder that his 'Marshalling of the Trojans' was 'lost'? Notice that the suspiciously variant accounts come from places away from Athens; from across the Aegean Sea, from Ionia, from other parts of Asia Minor, and farther away in the Middle East. We might suspect that the works were 'lost' because they provided evidence for the true time of the Trojan War and the true location of Troy. Their story of the war opposed the Athenian account, which we have come to accept."
LikeReply3 hrs
Tom Vutayan The part about Athens wanting to suppress the truth makes sense: of all the Achaean centers, only Athens survived the great upheaval that followed in the wake of the Trojan War. The other cities, such as Sparta, were taken over by the invading Dorians, cousins to the Achaeans. In other words, the Athenians were the last of the Achaeans in Greece. (The Dorian invasion occurred around 800 BC.)

1 comment:

  1. Lascelles has some pretty batty ideas about the Romans with regards to Troy and whilst his geographical and mythological cross referencing stands up to scrutiny he does somewhat pull the plug on his own credibility with his wild supppositions later in his book. Now John Crowe on the other hand is a different animal all together. Im fortunate to have been able to have dinner with John a couple of times and discuss his book and his manuscript for his second book (on the same subject). Despite not being an academic his process of investigation is totally rigorous with absolutely every fact (or opinion) checked and cross referenced to test its feasability. Hes an old friend of Lascelles and has obviously carried on his stiudies (whilst disagreeing with some of the wackier theories J.L has) and the research and theories that he has proposed is in fact so watertight that Bronze Age luminaries such as Snodgrass are giving their stamp of approval for his Troy Deception. Its a fascinating read and totally and utterly believable! Im totally behind him on it! :D